OpenAI President Greg Brockman concluded his testimony on Tuesday, where he strongly disputed Elon Musk’s account of the company’s early years and discussions.
Brockman testified that he has never made any commitments to Musk regarding the company’s structure, nor has he heard of anyone else doing so. He emphasized that OpenAI is still governed by a non-profit organization.
“This business remains a non-profit,” Brockman said, referring to the OpenAI foundation. “The nonprofit organization with the best resources in the world.”
Musk’s trial against the intelligence agency began its second week on Monday.
Musk sued OpenAI, Brockman and CEO Sam Altman two years ago, claiming they breached a duty to keep the company unprofitable. Musk testified in the first week of the trial, where he repeatedly accused Altman and Brockman of trying to “steal charity.”
Brockman, who spoke on the witness stand in federal court in Oakland, California, over the course of two days, also revealed that Musk enlisted several OpenAI employees to do free work for him for months. TeslaMusk’s electric car company.
That work mainly included efforts to improve the company’s approach to developing self-driving technology as part of the Autopilot team there in 2017.
During his two days on the stand, Brockman answered questions about his financial ambitions, his understanding of OpenAI’s structure and Musk’s involvement in the company, which he co-founded with other executives in 2015.
In Musk’s testimony last week, the Tesla and SpaceX CEO said the time, money and resources he poured into OpenAI were part of the company’s success. He often mentions that he helped find the company’s top talent.
Brockman said Tuesday that while Musk was instrumental in convincing some employees to jump ship and join OpenAI, he was a polarizing figure for others.
“Elon had a reputation for being a tough driver,” Brockman said. He added that “some candidates were very attracted” to Musk’s involvement in OpenAI, and that “other candidates were very turned off.”
Musk testified last week that a former OpenAI researcher named Andrej Karpathy joined Tesla, but after he planned to leave the startup.
Brockman said Musk, after hiring Karpathy, went to him “apologizing and confessing,” about the hiring, and that neither Musk nor Karpathy told him the researcher planned to leave OpenAI before then.
Musk was largely absent from meetings and interviews, Brockman said, so he relied on employees, including Sam Teller and former OpenAI board member Shivon Zilis, as proxies.
Brockman also testified that Musk has never shown interest in OpenAI’s open-source technology, nor has he moved to officially seek it out for non-profits.
Musk had repeatedly suggested on the stand that OpenAI’s open access models should be the organization’s primary employer.
“To be honest, it wasn’t a topic of conversation,” Brockman said.
Around 2017, Musk, Altman and Brockman participated in discussions about the direction of OpenAI, and explored the creation of a for-profit company in which Musk would have an equity stake. Musk left the company’s board in 2018, and OpenAI formed a for-profit arm following his departure.
Brockman testified Tuesday about Musk’s heated response to him and his fellow co-founders when they tried to negotiate who should hold a stake in the for-profit organization OpenAI.
When their conversation turned to equality, Brockman said “something really changed” with Musk.
“Something changed in him. You could feel it. He was angry, upset,” Brockman said.
He said that Musk rejected this proposal when he met with him in person, then he tore the drawing of the Tesla Model 3 car from the wall, and started storming out of the room.
Before he left, Brockman said Musk turned around and demanded to know when he and his co-founders would leave the company. He said he was afraid that Musk might hit him at that time.
OpenAI’s lawyers also asked Brockman if Musk had ever said why he wanted to control OpenAI.
Brockman said in interviews, Musk said he “saw what it was like to be out of control and he didn’t like it.”
For example, Brockman said, Musk told him that at Zip2, lack of control “caused the problem,” and at SolarCity “his cousins had no control,” and “they should bail them out.” Musk’s car business, Tesla, acquired his cousins’ faltering business in a $2.6 billion deal in 2016.
Brockman also said Musk told him he wanted control of OpenAI, in part, to finance the construction of a “city on Mars” that SpaceX executives said would require $80 billion during their talks.
SpaceX, which owns and operates OpenAI competitor xAI, is now targeting a 2026 IPO, when it reportedly aims to raise $75 billion.
Brockman’s Finance
On Monday, Musk’s attorney, Steven Molo, pressed Brockman about his budget for the for-profit OpenAI, which is worth about $30 billion. Molo repeatedly pointed out that Brockman did not follow through on the offer to donate $100,000 – or any amount – to the nonprofit.
“I didn’t end up donating, that’s true,” Brockman said on the stand.
Brockman kept a journal to document personal and professional events in his life, and Molo pointed out several things he included in his line of questioning, including one from 2017, which read, “Financially, what will get me to $1B?”
Molo asked if Brockman was more interested in supporting a non-profit organization, or becoming a billionaire and enriching himself. Brockman said the mission of OpenAI “has always been my primary motivation,” and that fair compensation for his work as a founder was a secondary consideration.
Brockman revealed that he thought he was “good” with $1 billion worth of stock, and Molo spoke about his choice of names repeatedly.
Molo asked Brockman why he didn’t donate another $29 billion to the nonprofit, now known as the OpenAI Foundation. Brockman didn’t have a straight answer.
The hearing will continue at 8:30 am PT on Wednesday. The mother of Musk’s four children, former OpenAI board member Shivon Zilis, is expected to testify.
